Interaction with Delegation from the French Institute for Advanced Studies in National Defence (IHEDN)

Manohar Parrikar Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (MP-IDSA) organised an interaction with a delegation from the French Institute for Advanced Studies in National Defence (IHEDN) on “India-France Bilateral Relations” on 27 May 2024. The interaction was chaired by Ambassador Sujan R. Chinoy, Director General, MP-IDSA and attended by scholars from the Europe and Eurasia Centre, Defence Economics and Industry Centre, and Military Affairs Centre of MP-IDSA.

Executive Summary

The event provided a comprehensive overview of India-France Bilateral relations. It delved into historic ties of the two nations while also simultaneously analysing the current state of affairs and future prospects of developing this strategic partnership further. Diplomatic and defence ties between India and France, the current state of global affairs including violent clashes in Europe, West Asia, and the building up of tension in the Asian waters were discussed. Mention was made of French support towards India’s inclusion in the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) permanent membership, its decision to continue trade with India even when the west planned on boycotting India owing to its first successful nuclear weapon test. France has also been a crucial pillar in India’s journey of reducing Russian dependency for military imports. India has been a natural partner of France in the Indo-Pacific owing to its shared values and interests. It is a reliable and trustworthy ally which seeks to further deepen ties.

Detailed Report

Ambassador Sujan R. Chinoy, Director General, MP-IDSA delivered the opening remarks. He began by formally welcoming General Benoît Durieux, Director General, IHEDN and the French delegation to India. He mentioned the defence and strategic cooperation between India and France with an emphasis on cooperation in the maritime theatre, deepening defence and security ties, and greater convergence on many defence platforms. He mentioned that India would be happy to engage with the French over joint ventures, joint research and development projects, technology transfers for crucial defence systems, and alike. This could help the countries in their shared agenda of the fight against terrorism. Trilateral Cooperation for Development in Africa is another aspect where India and France can work together with a third African country in Africa. Such an arrangement can harness historical ties that French have with the continent along with India’s goodwill which has been increasing with the African countries.

Amb. Chinoy highlighted the current state of global affairs, which is governed by great power contestation. The US and China are caught in a tussle of trying to prove their supremacy over the other. Russia and Ukraine are engaged in war since February 2022. Post COVID-19 pandemic the world is witnessing a disruption in global supply chains and an increase in debt distress levels, especially in developing countries. The world is also witnessing certain non-state actors strengthening their hold on crucial points on the map. For instance, the Houthis have managed to get a stronghold on certain areas of Yemen which leaves them in control of crucial chokepoints like the Bab-al Mandab Strait. Simultaneously, there has been a spike in the piracy cases around that region. This reflects that if non-state actors were to get control of other chokepoints, we could witness an increase in the nature and number of disruptive issues around that area.

Amb. Chinoy mentioned that social media is yet another sector which has been growing exponentially. It has become a new frontier on a battlefield which is constantly evolving and affecting those who are far away from it. The battle of narratives is being fought ferociously on online platforms to try and control the mindset of global citizens. Greater number of countries are seeking multipolarity, reformed multilateralism and issue based alignments. In today’s globalised world, decoupling is not an option but it is very important to be able to de-risk policies and supply chains.  The concept of de-risking was first introduced by Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission. De-risking from China is vital for Europe as China has managed to link its geo-economic interests with geopolitics when dealing with other countries, be it allies or others.

In conclusion, Amb. Chinoy highlighted the need to reform our multilateral systems. He underlined the condition of the post World War II institutions aimed at maintaining peace and preventing another world war. It was mentioned that post cold war there has been no real adjustment made to ensure fair representation of the developing countries in structures such as the UNSC, multilateral banks and institutions. In this major power contestation the 7Ts of trade, technology, territory, terrorism, tenets (narratives), trust and transparency provide a frame of reference.

General Benoît Durieux, Director General, IHEDN commenced his address by thanking MP-IDSA for the hospitality. He mentioned that this was the first time that IHEDN decided to send such a large delegation to India, comprising 103 members. This was a natural choice for the French which reflected the strong partnership between the two countries. He drew parallels between India and France and pointed out that both the countries value multilateralism. What India means by multilateralism is what France’s idea of ‘not aligned’ is. There is a difference of terminology but the meaning of the terms is the same. Both India and France are global voices, meaning that when they have something to say at a global stage, the others listen. Both are nuclear power wielding countries which behave responsibly and do not threaten the use of nuclear weapons on those who do not align with their views. For France, diplomacy and democracy are very significant aspects. It upholds democratic values above all else.

Speaking of defence institutions, General Durieux said that it is important for military institutions and foreign policy institutes to understand the reasons as to why military force is employed. It matters how decision makers view defence and political issues and at times we may observe a slight overlap between the two. Climate crises is one such instance where the scale of threat is ever changing based on new developments. Not only this, new technological tools like artificial intelligence (AI), cyberspace, and drones will change our society and we will have to wait and watch for the kind of impact it has in the long run. General Durieux urged both the countries to work tirelessly towards the reality of their strategic partnership.

General Durieux concluded by saying that it is the duty of think tanks to engage and develop partnerships at the institutional level to exchange ideas and thoughts. He also mentioned an upcoming French Institute by the name of ‘French Defence University’ which will be an association of 23 research institutions focused on military education and training. He extended an invitation for a delegation from MP-IDSA led by Amb. Sujan Chinoy, to participate in the second edition of the Paris Defence and Strategy Forum scheduled in March 2025, before concluding his remarks.

Amb. Sujan Chinoy, Director General, MP-IDSA was the first speaker on the panel and he spoke on “Evolving Dynamics in the Indo-Pacific”. He began by discussing India’s core strategic outlook which reflected the teachings of Gandhi and Buddha and deeply cherishs India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity as cornerstones of its economic growth. India has its own set of challenges but it has never aggressed against other nations as the first mover. In the Indo-Pacific, China’s rapid rise has been somewhat disruptive. It has not been able to adjust to the global rise of other countries and the world too has not been able to adjust to China’s rapid rise in Asian waters. China has benefitted immensely from the current world order but it is unhappy that the reigns of agenda-setting are still in the hands of the West.

Amb. Chinoy highlighted the criticality of the Indo-Pacific and how the concept evolved from the old terminology ‘Asia-Pacific’. Earlier economic development was restricted to certain pockets in south-east Asia but with time, this has spread. Thereby, the term Indo-Pacific being more inclusive. Speaking of international waters, Amb Chinoy also explained the cruciality of various chokepoints in maritime trade routes like the Bab-al-Mandab, Red Sea, Strait of Hormuz, Sunda Strait amongst others. If control of these points were to fall in the hands of non-state actors, it would make things very complicated for the states. Groupings like the Quad were also mentioned by the Amb. Its re-birth since 2017, when it was elevated from Senior Official/Minister level dialogue to Summit level. Malabar exercises and Quad partners’ individual bilateral exercises also found mention.

Indo-Pacific is a strategically important geolocation which also harbours the waters around the Quad countries but here China’s increased presence is witnessed in Micronesia and Polynesia. It has overlapping claims with many countries regarding the Nine- Dash Line. It is involved in illegal fishing, building artificial islands and has been threatening Taiwan with frequent sorties without having ruled out the option of use of force yet on Taiwan. There is increasing support in favour of Taiwan but powers like the United States still maintain an ambiguous stand on the issue of supporting Taiwan over China. Beijing has made inroads into ASEAN and made several ASEAN countries dependent on it, thereby fracturing any possible consensus to stand united in the face of the dragon.

Amb. Chinoy stated that all major powers are present in the Indo-Pacific.  India is a peninsular country with a vast Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). Its vision for the Indo-Pacific was well defined by the Prime Minister in 2018 as an “open, stable, secure and prosperous Indo-Pacific Region”. SAGAR and its extension- SagarMala project- are aimed at linking India’s inland ports and waterways to global shipping. India is also an observer in Australian Naval exercises, apart from being a participant in some. Concluding his remarks, Amb. Chinoy highlighted the 7 pillars of the Indo-Pacific Oceans Initiative and the role of Japan, Australia, France, Singapore and Indonesia as important partners of India in different pillars of this programme.

Dr. Swasti Rao, Associate Fellow, MP-IDSA was the second Speaker on the panel and she spoke on “Evolving Dimensions of India-France Bilateral Ties”. She began by congratulating the IHEDN delegation for successfully hosting the International Session for the Indo-Pacific (SIIP) 2023 in Paris. She pointed out that India has a 2+2 mechanism with its close allies like Australia, the United Kingdom (UK), and others but not with France. The reason being that India and France are natural allies who have managed to build close ties even without such a mechanism. This speaks volumes about the bond of trust between the two countries but the real question is where does this trust come from. It primarily flows from two major documents signed by the Indian and French leadership. First is ‘Horizon 2047 Roadmap’ signed during Prime Minister Modi’s visit to Paris as the Chief Guest for the Bastille Day celebrations on 14 July 2023. Second is the ‘Defence Industry Roadmap’ signed during President Macron’s visit to India as the Chief Guest for the 75th Republic Day on 26 January 2024.

The Horizon 2047 Roadmap will coincide with the centenary of India’s independence, the centenary of diplomatic relations between India and France, and 50 years of the strategic partnership. These documents mention the bilateral defence industrial collaboration; bilateral, trilateral and triangular cooperation; and outlines the comprehensive matrix of engagement between the two. France has proved to be India’s true ally time and again. Dr. Rao recalled that in 1998 when the west imposed sanctions on India for conducting nuclear weapons tests, France did not abide by those sanctions. It continued to engage with India on its own terms. Another instance is the US built Tarapur reactors where US was supplying fuel until complications arose due to the non-proliferation issue. It was France which came to India’s aid and supplied nuclear fuel until 1992.

Highlighting India’s role in the globalised world today, Dr. Rao mentioned India as the indisputable leader of the Global South. France is focused on the developmental agenda in the Indo-Pacific, which India often misses to take note of. Agence France Trésor, the French agency responsible for managing the State's finances, is fully committed to it. She also mentioned India and France together tackling global issues like climate change, poverty and welfare policies, especially in third world countries. The trilateral developmental cooperation between India and France in Africa is a classic example of this.

Dr. Rao mentioned space cooperation as a significant aspect of India-France bilateral ties. It is rooted in history similar to defence cooperation and can be traced back to 1960s. Joint space collaboration between Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and the French National Space Agency (CNES) has resulted in two world class space missions. CNES has also opened a permanent liaison office in Bengaluru.  India and France have held two space dialogues and France is the third country with which India has held space dialogues after US and Japan.

To conclude, the collaboration and cooperation between India and France is at a high point and according to Dr. Rao this can be taken forward by focusing on bilateral ties, encouraging people to people relations, resuming work on projects like the Jaitapur Nuclear power plant which have been stuck for a while now.  

Dr S. Samuel C. Rajiv, Research Fellow, MP-IDSA spoke on “India-France Defence Industry Cooperation”. He noted that in the past decade India was France’s top defence export destination and France was India’s second highest defence supplier after Russia. India was the biggest arms export market for Russia, France, and Israel from 2014-2023. France’s share in global arms exports in 2019-23 stood at 11 per cent, making it the second biggest exporter of arms globally for the first time, after the United States and ahead of Russia, China and Germany. Dr. Rajiv highlighted that aircrafts and ships were the top category of weapons exports, followed by missiles, sensors and engines.

Dr. Rajiv then highlighted some key aspects relating to French defence companies in India. The first company to find mention was Dassault Aviation. The Indian Air Force (IAF) was the first export customer of Dassault Aviation in 1953 when it ordered the Ouragans/Toofani aircrafts. India also secured the Mirages and Rafale jets. The naval version of the Rafale has also been selected by India for its aircraft carrier air wing. He noted that India selected the French fighter despite stiff competition from Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet. India will be the first country outside France to field both land and naval versions of the Rafale.

Dr. Rajiv noted India’s acquisition of Scorpene submarines (from the Naval Group) with the sixth expected to be commissioned later this year. Safran has been present in India since the last 65 years and 75 per cent of the Indian aircrafts and helicopters use Safran engines comprising equipment like the Inertial Navigation Systems, with the latter co-developed with Indian public sector companies like BEL, with contributions from DRDO as well. Thales also has a significant presence with more than 2,000 employees and joint ventures with many Indian companies. It provides significant components for the Rafale jets. Dr. Rajiv pointed out that 16 per cent of the total offset contracts (by number) are being executed by French companies.

Highlighting key trends, Dr. Rajiv noted that Indian military aircraft imports have witnessed increased imports from European manufacturers like Dassault and Airbus in recent times while imports from Russia have declined. He highlighted that India’s defence engagement with strategic partners such as France will increasingly take place in the backdrop of the ongoing defence transformation with defence indigenisation and domestic procurement being key focus areas. He noted that India’s defence budgets have seen adequate allocations to cater to defence modernisation needs. At the same time, he noted that India’s defence budgets are less than 2 per cent of its GDP.

In conclusion, Dr. Rajiv highlighted key aspects of the India-France Horizon 2047 document in which both countries have pledged to build sovereign defence capabilities together as well as cooperate in co-development and co-production of advanced defence technologies.

Q&A Session

This session comprised of questions from the IHEDN delegation, relating to a range of themes associated with India-French relations and current geopolitical relations and tensions across the globe.

First question was regarding the Indian perspective on closer Russia - China relations as a result of the Russia - Ukraine conflict, considering that India has its own set of issues with China. To this Amb. Chinoy responded by saying that Russia - China relations have had their ups and down and in fact quite a bit of Chinese socialist culture is borrowed from the USSR. Historically, it was the Soviet Union that taught China the ways and means of doing business. The closeness of Russia - China ties is not only a concern for India but also the western powers but it is only expected given the current global scenario. For Russia, it is more of an alliance of convenience as they do not seem very happy playing second fiddle to China. 

Second question was regarding India’s reliance on Russian oil, weapons and arms and how that could be impacted by a deeper China - Russia nexus. Amb. Chinoy responded to this by saying that India is buying oil from Russia just like China and the others are. Even Japan is buying nearly 10 per cent of its natural gas from Russia. Fuel trade is essentially governed by the price factor and if any other country was to offer a cheaper price for oil to India, it would not hesitate to buy from them. Buying Russian oil makes economical sense given the high demand in the Indian market. India is one of the top 5 economies in the world with a steady projected rise to reach new heights. It needs affordable energy to meet daily requirements and it is not self-sufficient in oil. Hence, the oil trade from Russia.

Next question was regarding India’s position in the multi-aligned world and the pros and cons of it. Amb. Chinoy responded by emphasising India’s strategic autonomy and how it plans on maintaining its indigenous strategic thinking, its culture and the choice of what to do and what not to do. The new India today is not going to take orders from other countries, rather it wants to exercise its independent choice and strategic autonomy. The soldiers of Indian origin fighting on the side of the UK in the world war on European soil did not have a real choice but to do as ordered by the imperialists. The non-alignment movement (NAM) was founded to let nations take their own decisions and not be influenced by any of the blocs during the Cold War. Many of the Global South countries were also a part of it since 1961.

Amb. Chinoy recalled the India - China War, when India requested weapons from the US (even though some shipments arrived late) in exercise of its strategic autonomy, notwithstanding its non-aligned policy. Another instance cited by Amb. Chinoy was the 1971 India-Pakistan War when US sent its 7th fleet to the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India but it did not give into any kind of pressure. India took its own decision to conclude a Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation with the USSR. Every single time that India has faced war on any of its borders, it was left to defend itself on its own. This highlights the fact that territorial integrity and sovereignty need to be maintained at all costs.

Next question from the floor was in connection with India’s role in the Global South, with regard to BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) and also about the new world order that India seeks to build. Amb. Chinoy responded by highlighting that India’s per capita GDP is unlikely to decline anytime soon. India as a member of the Global South is a given. It wants to be a positive representative of the region, a friend. According to Amb. Chinoy, BRICS does not have much of a future even though today it comprises 30 per cent of the global GDP which is around 30 trillion USD.  He even referred to the recent expansion of BRICS and how the organisation might face issues with the commodity economy given the volatility involved. This became evident when China faced problems while dealing with financial sectors like banking and having to bail them out. Speaking of harmony and convergence, Amb. Chinoy pointed out that G20 is one such global structure which can serve as a platform to converge views from different geographies of the world. G7, European Union, African Union, the P-5 and the BRICS are all a part of the G20. There are no veto powers in the grouping and it is fully functional. It’s a dream team.

Subsequent questions were around the current Taliban regime in Afghanistan and India’s take on this, and the Russia - Ukraine conflict, as to what will lead to an Indian military intervention in Ukraine. The query was addressed by stating that India’s military intervention in Ukraine is a far-fetched idea. Regarding Taliban’s presence in Afghanistan, Amb. Chinoy mentioned that Taliban’s presence in Afghanistan is a peculiar situation. Social policies and welfare schemes have certainly come under scrutiny since Taliban assumed power in Afghanistan. Freedom and education of women and girls has been severely curtailed. Given the regional dynamics, we can only hope that Afghanistan does not become a safe haven for terrorist outfits again.

The last two queries were regarding decarbonisation and green development of the developing economies, and India’s priorities with regard to reform of multilateral structures. Addressing the former question, Amb. Chinoy highlighted the role played by sectors like electric vehicles and lithium-ion batteries in helping developing countries deal with their growing energy demands in a clean fashion. The developmental finance promised by the developed countries is crucial to green transformation of the Global South but this funding is yet to reach the developing markets.

With regard to reforms of multilateral structures, Amb. Chinoy emphasised the permanent membership of the UNSC. It was formed in 1945, but since then the world has changed a lot and the membership (non-permanent) of the organisation was only expanded once. He recalled the debates at ECOSOC (Economic and Social Council) from 1961-65 resulting in a one – time expansion of the UNSC’s non-permanent membership but since then, nothing has been done. It is not only the UNSC but also the Multilateral Development Banks (MDBs), International Financial Institutions (IFIs), and Bretton Woods structures which need to be reformed. Even the Special Drawing Rights (SDRs) quota of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has been amended only once around 2009. Amb. Chinoy pointed out that India’s SDR quota is lower than the UK, even though its GDP is more than that of the UK. SDRs have not kept pace with time. Greater finance should be made available to people and the likes of hybrid finance need to be promoted, especially among the developing countries.

After concluding the Q&A session, Ambassador Chinoy thanked General Benoît Durieux, Director General, IHEDN, the French delegation, and the audience for a fruitful engagement.

Report has been prepared by Ms. Anandita Bhada, Research Analyst, Europe and Eurasia Centre, Manohar Parrikar Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.